Count me in. There is no room in any civilized space for virulent haters. There is no ambiguity about who they are. They ANNOUNCE who they are. They’re loud and proud.
I haven’t seen a single argument that would make me change my mind: I want them gone.
Agreed. I love the concept of freedom of expression in theory, but not when it allows people to spread hate, harass and bully people, and incite violence against others.
I think calling for absolute free speech is definitely a sign of privilege. There are a lot of people that can’t afford to take that position because they are already the victims of someone else’s free speech. And eventually, everyone will be if hate speech continues unabated.
Yep. However, I'm moving things off of Substack. I deleted my fiction Substack, though then the motivation was simply that I wasn't seeing sell-through of related work or the final version, and I was concerned about A.I. scraping. Since then...yeah.
I can't afford to have my author newsletter associated with this place, due to the political nature of my fiction. I'd already started seeing trends that reminded me of Medium and worried me, including a proliferation of bots and trolls on Notes. The founders' reaction to Substackers Against Nazis just confirmed it for me...and I am withdrawing from depending heavily on this forum as a result. Just started making lists and thinking it through today, sigh.
The thing is, there really isn’t a good alternative because all of these tech bros believe in “free speech” for all, damn the consequences. And if we let Nazis run us off of Substack, then they win, and I’m not OK with that.
There are lots of problems with Substack leadership, but there are also a hell of a lot of us that are pointing it out. I’m not giving up yet.
It's true aspirations and values are different than I originally thought they would be. The non-answer answer by Substack leadership was sadly an insult to injury. I'm also part German - some of my family was murdered by the SS - and I feel a special responsibility to try to make the motto: "Never Again" a reality.
Here's the profound poem by Martin Niemöller, which expresses the result of inaction, neutrality or taking a "hands-off" approach towards a murderous ideology:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me..."
Thanks for writing this, Jackie. I’ll gladly support your thorniness as co-founder of Fictionistas, but if I’m being honest, I’m working on moving my new main newsletter to another service. It hurts on a number of levels, but I don’t want to bring more people into this ecosystem until things get better.
Glad I found @Geoffrey Golden so I could find you, as well 👏🏼 Happy to contribute to the bramble, and also encouraging folks to divest from payments here and pick them up elsewhere. More than our words, our marching dollars will get their attention.
I'm okay with friendly discussion but I'm not down for ranting or people talking about others being bigoted against white people.
Count me in. There is no room in any civilized space for virulent haters. There is no ambiguity about who they are. They ANNOUNCE who they are. They’re loud and proud.
I haven’t seen a single argument that would make me change my mind: I want them gone.
Agreed. I love the concept of freedom of expression in theory, but not when it allows people to spread hate, harass and bully people, and incite violence against others.
With every freedom there are consequences if that freedom is abused. Freedom of speech is no different. I'm really tired of that argument.
I think calling for absolute free speech is definitely a sign of privilege. There are a lot of people that can’t afford to take that position because they are already the victims of someone else’s free speech. And eventually, everyone will be if hate speech continues unabated.
Exactly.
Yep. However, I'm moving things off of Substack. I deleted my fiction Substack, though then the motivation was simply that I wasn't seeing sell-through of related work or the final version, and I was concerned about A.I. scraping. Since then...yeah.
I can't afford to have my author newsletter associated with this place, due to the political nature of my fiction. I'd already started seeing trends that reminded me of Medium and worried me, including a proliferation of bots and trolls on Notes. The founders' reaction to Substackers Against Nazis just confirmed it for me...and I am withdrawing from depending heavily on this forum as a result. Just started making lists and thinking it through today, sigh.
This is precisely why I haven't started publishing on Substack. There is a lot that makes me uncomfortable.
The thing is, there really isn’t a good alternative because all of these tech bros believe in “free speech” for all, damn the consequences. And if we let Nazis run us off of Substack, then they win, and I’m not OK with that.
There are lots of problems with Substack leadership, but there are also a hell of a lot of us that are pointing it out. I’m not giving up yet.
I'm Leaving Substack. This Is Why...
It's true aspirations and values are different than I originally thought they would be. The non-answer answer by Substack leadership was sadly an insult to injury. I'm also part German - some of my family was murdered by the SS - and I feel a special responsibility to try to make the motto: "Never Again" a reality.
Here's the profound poem by Martin Niemöller, which expresses the result of inaction, neutrality or taking a "hands-off" approach towards a murderous ideology:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me..."
-----
Thanks for writing this, Jackie. I’ll gladly support your thorniness as co-founder of Fictionistas, but if I’m being honest, I’m working on moving my new main newsletter to another service. It hurts on a number of levels, but I don’t want to bring more people into this ecosystem until things get better.
I completely understand, and we'll miss you!
Glad I found @Geoffrey Golden so I could find you, as well 👏🏼 Happy to contribute to the bramble, and also encouraging folks to divest from payments here and pick them up elsewhere. More than our words, our marching dollars will get their attention.
Awesome!